Extract from the H.O.C. Hansard of Wednesday 14 June, 2006.

Speech by Mr. Jim Hood MP during the Debate on European Affairs   -   

European Affairs [14 Jun 2006]

2.16 pm

Mr. Jimmy Hood (Lanark and Hamilton, East) (Lab): I welcome my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary to her new portfolio. It is interesting, when discussing European issues, to remember that in 1998, when she was Leader of the House, she was responsible for giving us better Standing Orders and more powers of scrutiny. Over the past eight years, we have benefited from the pre and post-Council scrutiny, the increase in Standing Committees from two to three and the scrutiny reserve, which has been important. That has been helpful, but we need to move on and have more powers. My right hon. Friend the Minister for Europe, when he was Leader of the House, was supportive of such progressive proposals, for which I give him credit, and to which I shall return later.

Angus Robertson: I am grateful to the Chairman of the European Scrutiny Committee for allowing such an early intervention. On scrutiny of European business in the House, does he agree that there are two challenges? First, Members need to take their obligations seriously, whether in Standing Committees or the European Scrutiny Committee. I note the unfortunate new statistics that show that the Liberal Democrats’ participation in the European Scrutiny Committee is less than 30 per cent., so they miss more than 70 per cent. of meetings. Secondly, does he agree that if we are to have proper scrutiny, it is unfortunate that the Government keep timetabling debates on European business to clash with the European Scrutiny Committee, which means that Members such as me cannot take part in those debates?

Mr. Hood: I understand what the hon. Gentleman says, and not for the first time he has a gripe about some of his colleagues among the Opposition who are on the European Scrutiny Committee. It is also fair to say, however, that the scheduling of Standing and Select Committees can be helpful. By coincidence or other means, the European Scrutiny Committee has unfortunately been busy with other matters when we have had such debates. I understand his position, and he has made his point.

Mr. Davidson: Surely it cannot be true that the Liberal Democrats attended only 30 per cent. of such meetings, given their enormous interest in the debate today, to the extent that the Liberal Democrat spokesman will not even be capable of getting a seconder should there be a vote before the end of the debate.

Mr. Hood: My hon. Friend makes his point.

There are many topical issues under the heading of today’s debate—European affairs—but I shall concentrate on two: the enlargement process and the period of reflection on the constitutional treaty, which, as I shall explain, are related. I should also like to talk about our system of scrutiny, which was alluded to earlier.

Ten new member states joined the European Union at the start of 2004, and so far it looks as though that rapid increase in membership has been a success. The economies of the new states are growing—and not at the expense of the rest of the European Union. It has already been decided that Romania and Bulgaria will join at the beginning of either 2007 or 2008. The Council of Ministers has recently concluded that the final decision should be taken later this year, based on reports on how the two countries are progressing in meeting all the criteria laid down for accession.

This Parliament has passed a Bill to allow that accession to take place, and I believe that the widespread consensus is that both countries should join as soon as possible. However, although both have made great progress, we will do them no favours if we ignore the criteria and allow them to join for the wrong reasons. Not only would they have joined before they were ready; there would also be implications for further enlargements.

Croatia and Turkey are on the accession waiting list, and we are expecting applications from the whole of the rest of the western Balkans. There will be many advantages to us, and to them, in welcoming further states into the European Union, but all the tests have to be satisfied. If we do agree in principle to letting in further states, subject to their meeting all the criteria, we must be in a position to deliver on our own undertakings.

We need to ensure that the European institutions can cope with further enlargement, which cannot be done on the basis of the existing treaties and certainly not on the basis of the constitutional treaty, because, as we know, it has been rejected by France and the Netherlands. Much has been said about that, but to be fair there is a strong suspicion, which I share, that if the UK had a referendum on the constitutional treaty, the same result could occur.

When the European Scrutiny Committee visited Helsinki last week, we discussed this issue with our colleagues in the Finnish Parliament, who are in the process of examining and agreeing the constitutional treaty. I told them in as friendly and fraternal a way as possible that, in my view, that was not a wise thing to do. I told them politely but bluntly that, given that they know that the treaty has been voted against by two member states, agreeing it in their own Parliament would send out all the wrong messages. We are in danger of the political elite talking to the political elite. When the constitutional treaty was first debated, reference was made to the need to re-engage the citizen, but if we go down that route, we are in serious danger of getting further and further away from that goal.

Mr. David Hamilton: Is it not true that some three weeks earlier, when we attended a COSAC conference, the French delegation indicated that the French did not really know what they were doing, and that it argued for reintroducing the constitution?

Mr. Hood: We had a very interesting COSAC conference, at which that discussion did take place. Members of the European Parliament, at least, seem to be disengaged from the reality of where the European Union is and where we want it to be. Describing the constitutional treaty as “being dead” is not the best language to use when discussing it, but nor is it right to argue that we should carry on with it and wait until something else comes along. The very wrong impression has been given that if the French presidential elections go ahead and there is a change, the argument will settle down. I said to the chairman of the French Assembly that if we consider the situation from the perspective of a French or Dutch politician, it could be a bit insulting to suggest at a COSAC meeting that we welcome moves to ratify the treaty. I was surprised to hear him say, however, that he was comfortable with welcoming such ratification. That worries me. If politicians in France, where there has been a referendum and a substantial “no” vote, think like that, it will send out the wrong message.

Dr. Julian Lewis (New Forest, East) (Con): I have been listening very carefully to the hon. Gentleman’s thoughtful and fair-minded comments. Does he think that it would have made any difference if a country such as the United Kingdom had gone ahead with holding a vote and had similarly rejected the idea of a constitution, as he and I suspect would have happened?
Alternatively, does he think that political elites in some of the other EU member countries would nevertheless have pressed on in the rather arrogant way that he describes so accurately?

Mr. Hood: In my usual, respectful way, I think that the UK Government were absolutely right not to have a referendum. Through their actions, they were saying that they respect the fact that the treaty had been rejected in two member states, so I do not support the view in favour of a referendum. We respected the decisions taken in Holland and France and called off our referendum.

Mr. Cash rose—

Mr. Hood: I look forward to being enlightened by the hon. Gentleman.

Mr. Cash: I want to ask the Chairman of our distinguished European Scrutiny Committee a question that I perhaps should have put to the Foreign Secretary, but which he might be able to answer. Why is the European Union Bill on today’s Order Paper—as it is on every other day—with Queen’s Consent to be signified, a Ways and Means motion, and all that goes with it? Given that the Bill makes provision for a referendum, does the hon. Gentleman think it extremely important that it be taken off the Order Paper, thereby indicating that the Government understand that it cannot proceed? The Labour party voted for it, but the Conservative party—thanks to the efforts of some of us—ensured that we voted against it on principle.

Mr. Hood: If the hon. Gentleman wants me to answer parliamentary questions, he should have a word with the Prime Minister, who might then want to put me in a position to do just that. So far, however, I am not in such a position.

Kelvin Hopkins: My hon. Friend attributes a noble motive to our Government’s decision not to hold a referendum—their respect for the results in France and Holland. However, were their minds not also concentrated by the fact that, according to recent figures, 86 per cent. of the British people would have voted against the treaty and only 14 per cent. would have been in favour?

Mr. Hood: That is a rather negative view; my own opinion is that the Government did the honourable and right thing. My hon. Friend can look into his own conspiracy theories.

Having said what I just said, the reality, to which I have referred, is that we need a treaty that is fit for purpose. Therefore, we have to have the arrangements for further enlargement in the treaty for the European Union. We cannot say to Croatia, Turkey or the states in the western Balkans that want to join the Union that we are prepared to welcome them, subject to them agreeing to various criteria if we do not have a treaty that is fit for purpose and we have not carried out our own obligations with respect to the enlargement.

Some have suggested that the moment of reflection will be followed by an attempt to bring the old treaty proposals in by the back door. I do not see it that way and I would not support that, but the proposals included other matters, especially the role of national Parliaments, that we should support. Some national parliamentarians have said that we are cherry-picking—but if it is cherry-picking to argue the case for more powers for national Parliaments, I support it.

Bob Spink (Castle Point) (Con): The hon. Gentleman mentions fitness for purpose, but is not that impossible to achieve? As far as the Dutch are concerned, the problem with the treaty is that it is too threatening to sovereignty, but for the French it is that it is economically too liberal. The treaty cannot possibly be made fit for purpose.

Mr. Hood: I am talking not about the treaty that has been rejected by France and the Netherlands, but about the treaty that we have now and the need to change it to accommodate enlargement. That is only practical and logical, and it is good politics.

Ms Gisela Stuart: Under our system, this Parliament is unlikely ever to arrive at a decision that is other than the Government’s, so it is wrong to talk of extra power for national Parliaments: it is simply more information.

Mr. Hood: I am sorry that my hon. Friend does not share my confidence in our Parliament to argue the case for more powers, because that is what we are doing. Dissatisfaction with our process for scrutiny—and it should be improved in some areas—is no reason to argue against increased powers for national Parliaments. Indeed, other Parliaments claim to scrutinise European legislation more than the UK Parliament. I am critical of our process of scrutiny and it could be improved, but we scrutinise European legislation better than most and as well as any. We have been given examples with which I do not agree.

Mr. Walter: The hon. Gentleman may have received this morning, as I did, a document published by the Robert Schuman Foundation, which is not known for its Eurosceptic views. It was written by the leader of the EU delegation in the French Senate and makes the same point as the hon. Gentleman. I was surprised by his comments about COSAC and the French National Assembly, because the document acknowledges the no vote in France and calls for stronger national Parliaments. It is even called “National Parliaments: a bulwark for Europe”. The hon. Gentleman is on the right lines.

Mr. Hood: The person who wrote the document must have been reading some of my speeches to reach the same conclusion. However, it was not a member of the French Senate who made the comment at COSAC, but a member of the French Assembly. It is not unusual for members of both Houses here to disagree, so that is perhaps what happened in that case.

We need to improve our scrutiny. My right hon. Friend the Minister for Europe, in his brief time as Leader of the House, responded progressively—which may have rung the alarm bells among the establishment here—to the modernisation report, but it has not yet been brought to the House almost a year later. I appeal to those who have influence on the matter to act. I have already made arrangements to talk to the new Leader of the House so that we may return to that report, bring it to the Floor of the House and discuss it. We should also consider some of the proposals made by my right hon. Friend, because his progressive approach was surely influenced by his 10 years’ experience in the European Parliament before he came here. He was a Leader of the House who—shock, horror—knew what he was talking about on European scrutiny. The House should look favourably on his proposals for scrutiny, and do so as soon as possible.

There is never a satisfactory way of scrutinising the Executive, but it is important that parliamentarians on both sides of the House accept our responsibility and duty to hold it to account, regardless of which party is in government. It is so important that Parliament knows, on behalf of the people whom we represent, what the Government do in their name. That is why we all have a collective interest in improving the process of scrutiny. I hope that we will return to the issue as soon as possible and do just that.

2.37 pm